Off Topic: Suffer a Witch to Live

[RavenFire]

No such thing. Not cuz of our faith, but the christian god said thou shall not suffer a WITCH to LIVE. So how can one be a christian Witch?
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It is wise not to fight in a battle of smarts with an unarmed person..

[Calliope]

I think you just like to argue with me. Why, I don't know.

The original translation of that from the Hebrew was "Thou shalt not suffer a murderer to live", and the next was "Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live", and finally, it became "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

Not all Christians believed that magic was evil.

Explain Voodoo and Hoodoo, then. They celebrate Catholic Saints, but also practice magic.

[RavenFire]

Yes I know all that, so then with the change to the bible, why would anyone want to be a Witch-christian it makes no sense. and yes I do love to debate a lot, Blessings RavenFire. P.S. I never argue it makes you look dumb if you argue. But to debate, that something that stimulates the mind, and gets the body going!
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It is wise not to fight in a battle of smarts with an unarmed person..

[Calliope]

Folk magic was always practiced. *shrug* Most witches adopted Christian ways so as not to be hung, stoned, or even just shunned from the community. My Grandmother learned her ways from her mother, and also the from the Native-Canadians that she lived amongst for many years of her life.

Many people didn't say they were witches, often just "healers", "cunning folk", etc.

[RavenFire]

Yes, and even now we sometime have to be just as cunning. Blessings Ravenfire.
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It is wise not to fight in a battle of smarts with an unarmed person..

[Calliope]

Nope---debate is with INTELLIGENT AND WELL RESEARCHED OPINIONS. Arguing is with NON-INTELLIGENT AND UNRESEARCHED OPINIONS.

You are not debating, you are arguing.

[RavenFire]

Well I never! You are rude, unkind, and should shove you thoughts else where. You have no respect for anyone but yourself.
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It is wise not to fight in a battle of smarts with an unarmed person..

[Calliope]

*shrug*

[QuercusRobur]

[Calliope]

you don't think I'm what I said I am?

I'm confused.

[QuercusRobur]

I meant I don't think you're what Raven Fire accused you of being.
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"History is just a myth that has been written down" Napoleon Bonaparte

[Calliope]

ah....okay.

Thank you!

[gwyddon]

It makes me laugh Calliope why some people like RavenFire just can't get the point of the word "discussion" or "debate".

I believe in what you posted Calliope, magic has been practiced by all cultures regardless of their religion. Take for example Voodoo, Hoodoo, Cunnung folk, Christian magic i.e. High Magic (they seem to use the Hebrew and Arabic magical systems of "King Solomon")...

Yeah, the Bible does says, Thou Shall Not Suffer A Witch To Live (Old Testament)...But Jesus in the New Testament didn't say anything about or against Witchcraft and Magic. His emphasis was on love, forgiveness, actions and faith not traditions or laws. He abolished the Old Testament laws of Yahweh in favor of the New Law which God has written in all human hearts and souls, our basic human ethics that urges us to love, respect, and forgive others...

I prefer to believe that God cannot be defined or named. And that makes it a lot easier to go back to being a Catholic and still be a Witch. Then it wouldn't matter anymore if God is Bisexual, Hetero-, or even Asexual. HE JUST IS!
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"O Sathan, give me my purpose!"

[QuercusRobur]

[seekerwitch]

As stated earlier, the original (and true) translation of that particular passage is 'Thou shalt not suffer a poisioner (or murderer) to live.' This passage was altered by King James when his translation (the one most Christians follow nowadays, and the basis for dumb-downed versions others use also) was published.

In fact, most of the passages in the Bible that involve Witches were historically proven to be altered by King James because he was well-known for being very fearsome of Witches and Witchcraft in general.

Also, the Witch of Endor -- originally she was not even called a Witch, in the original translation, the word Witch was not even used. She was labeled as 'a woman who hath a familiar spirit at Endor.'

The only real reason I believe this version of the Bible still exists is because of the Catholic Church and Queen Elizabeth, more so the Catholic Church because Queen Elizabeth was rumoured to be less than worried about Witches and/or Witchcraft until something was discovered -- a poppet that closely resembled her with pins jabbed into various parts of it (i.e. the heart, the head, the eyes, etc).

Only then did Queen Elizabeth begin to harshly enforce the Witchcraft Act laws of England.

I grew up in a very Christian home, my whole family is nothing but Christians and like... two Latter Day Saints. I was the only one to be a heathen/pagan as a child. My parents remember me praying to 'the Mother God' and Mary. My parents were horrified when I was young because my father nearly left my mother for a Witch when I was five. So when he came back, my parents watched me closely because (even though I never met this Witch woman my father nearly left my mother for) they saw practices that I did because Spirit led me to practice resembled that woman's practices.

Really, the way I've always seen this topic involving the Bible is this: the Bible itself was written by men. When someone writes a book, they added their owns beliefs and ideals into this work (whether it is underscoring or bluntly stated). These 'men of God' wrote a book about God, and the way they experienced God.

If they didn't like something, they wrote it -- calling it 'sin'. They wanted to publicize their religion, which had to be different than ours. So they took the keys of our religion and made them sin, destroying our documents and books to 'rid the world of our gods and our kind.'

All in all, look at the main strengths of our religion: Women are as powerful as men (Feminism), we believe in the Gods of old (Polytheism), all people are accepted no matter who they are or what their orientation is (Homosexuality), sex is sacred and honours life and promotes a profoundly power source of magic (Sexuality in general).

What do the Christians believe: Women are beneath men that Eve was the reason women bleed the 'curse of blood' (Anti-Feminism), thou shalt not have any other Gods before me (Anti-Polytheism, but note they don't say our Gods don't exist; just that they should not be worshiped), a man should lay with a woman, not with a man or animal (Anti-Homosexuality), sex should only be had when a man and woman are in wedlock, sex before marriage is a sin (Anti-Sexuality in general).

The Christians of the past looked at us as an abomination, they tried to kill us and rid the world of our kind. They know our religion was before their's, but they are the ones who actually PERVERTED OUR RITUALS AND PRACTICES yet they tell the world that we, as Pagans, Witches, Heathens, etc, pervert their's...

I am not Anti-Christian, not at all. I have so many loved ones who are true Christians, the ones that believe in the true message behind the Bible: Don't judge and love all, no matter who they are. That is the message you should look for in the Bible, not the Laws. They are man-made. The divine message is to not judge and love all.

Christianity is beautiful, especially Catholicism because it is very similar to ours as Pagans. But still, there is so much that people become willfully ignorant of.

Who we are, who we were, what it is we do and what we've done over the centuries...

Most of them don't care, and never will. But look for the ones that do. They will show you the true beauty of Christianity. But know that those people are few and far between.

Heat in hand,
Morgan Wodebayne